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C.S.M.P. Digest             Fri, 24 Apr 92       Volume 1 : Issue 58

Today's Topics:

    SUMMARY: Experiences w/ EDUCORP (long)
    Finder Window hack?
    AppleLink charges
    THINK C and HOpenResFile
    Opening Documents While T
    A beep when I compile?
    Q: Icons AND command keys in menus?
    Updated Inside Mac?
    AppleLink flames
    Yet *ANOTHER* resource question...


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-------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Brecher)
Subject: SUMMARY: Experiences w/ EDUCORP (long)
Date: 20 Mar 92 10:43:14 GMT
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA

Earlier this week I asked for opinions on EDUCORP, specifically asking how
they treated Shareware authors for whom they distributed software.  Although
I had heard negative things, I didn't know any specific details.  Curiously,
the *first* response I received provided the most info in this regard.

Gawd, I love the net!

Following is a compilation of responses I received.  Since I didn't
specifically ask permission to post these letters (although I implied it,
so I think I'm ok doing this much) I'm removed all indicators of the senders'
identities.  Headers and signatures have been removed entirely, and
info removed from the text has been replaced by "[]"

My thanks to everyone who responded.  I have decided to let EDUCORP
distribute my fonts.
                    jonathan brecher
                    [e-mail]


************************
Awhile back, EDUCORP saw no problems with redistributing anything that was
Shareware, without permission, for a price.  This practice made them a lot of
money, and made the users think they had ALREADY bought the software.  (They
did not realize that they were BUYING a collection of UNBOUGHT software).
What's more, EDUCORP even broke some author's distribution policies, and did
not suggest or encourage payment of Shareware fees in any way.  They were
basically out to make money.

If EDUCORP actually ASKED for permission, and if they include suggestions to
pay the authors of the software, and follow distribution policies, then
perhaps it's time to rethink they're status among Mac programmers (maybe they
can break out of the slime status).  Off hand, I'd say, go ahead, take a
chance.  Maybe you should include in your registration info the question
"Where did you acquire this software?" and see if EDUCORP is actually making
money for you or just off you.
************************
My personal opinion only: I dunno whether they still include it, but
my game [] was distributed by EduCorp for several years at
least; it even had a full page in their catalog at least once.

The idea behind releasing something as shareware is to get the widest
distribution possible. The VAST majority of users aren't gonna pay
anyway. What difference if the distributor makes a bit of money
spreading it around for you? To me, at least, EduCorp's disk prices
seem pretty much in line with the reasonable cost of duplicating and
order-handling. I don't think they're making an unfair profit.
************************
I think EDUCORP and related companies are a fact of life that shareware
authors should learn to live with. I don't think what they do is wrong in any
sense. They do cleary tell their customers to pay their shareware fees - I
think that's about all you can ask.

They carry two of my programs (which are freeware) and in return
they gave me my choice of 4 disks of their stuff (2 per program).
"It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick."

You can reach them through AppleLink as EDUCORP.
************************
>People will feel they've already paid EDUCORP, so they won't pay you
>[yeah, but without EDUCORP they wouldn't have had the font in the first place,
>so they would never have thought of paying before]

This last point is wrong, I think. I pay shareware fees (and I suspect
others do also) for one reason - I recognize the effort of the developer
and wish to send him some acknowlegement for the effort. I temper
this feeling of "love" with a requirement that the software have some
value for me... Even if I paid EDUCORP, I would still act the same way.
************************
My name is [], and I am the author of a shareware [] utility [].

The Educorp asked me for a permission for their distributing [] as
part of floppy collections or CD's (whatever) 1 - 2 years ago.  Having
heard some bad words from other shareware writers in the past on BMUG
and on CompuServe, I said no.  They went ahead anyway (i.e. without my
permission).  I think I can tell, because I have so far received =one=
sharware fee payment from a user who said he got it from EduCorp.

I guess I should not stay a shareware writer, unless I can keep some sort
of a flower-child in myself.  Mostly I've been successful being that way.
Once I turn my eyes to real-world / financial aspects, it's just too
depressing.  [] has been mentioned / reviewed at least 6 times on
magazine articles. Out of these article writers, only one of them cared
to send me the shareware fee.  Then the way to think of it, according to me,
is "Ah, 1/6 is no too bad, because the usual rule of thumb is that behind
each paying user there are reputedly 50 un-paying users hiding.
************************
As a long-time BMUGer, past chair of the BMUG Board of Directors, and user-
group nut, I'll give a slant on EduCorps that you may not receive from others.
I just wanted you to know where this is coming from -- a disclosure.

User groups use shareware to help in a small way fund their "good works" and
activites. In a organization like BMUG, this includes the many SIG meetings,
main meetings, and our offices, where we can provide phone and in-person help.
We are able to produce books, and other publications, evaluate and test
software, and report the results to our members (13,000). We even have a
political action group to influence computer industry laws and policies.

The maintenance of a large library takes a lot of effort. We've
just finished a weeding program in the BMUG library for 32-bit
compatibility. I don't know that EduCorp bothers with issues like this...

EduCorp exisits to make money for its owners. Period. I don't have a problem
with this, not do I feel differently about shareware authors that "let" their
work out through their products. The sharewware distribution system is
important, and we all want people to get the software. But the use of the
money received in the distribution is different.
************************
I have nothing personally against Educorp, but I'd like to keep my  free stuff
absolutely free (including distribution charges although I'm willing  to make
some allowances for non-profit user groups and BBS's) I also think that if
someone is going to publish your software they owe you some royalties,
although they probably couldn't afford to be much. But if this doesn't bother
you feel free to go ahead and let Educorp distribute. Especially if its
shareware rather than freeware I don't see much of a problem. Educorp even
offers discountsa and free disks to people who send them copies of cancelled
checks for shareware payments and its nice to know that they are taking the
anti-Educorp license agreements seriously.
************************
I think they've just done a good job of annoying a lot of folks over the years.

Distribution is crucial for shareware, since there's no point in writing
the stuff if nobody'll ever get a copy of it.  So, if you're satisfied that
their dealing with you in a reasonable manner, go for it.
************************
They have misappropriated HyperCard stuff and generally treated shareware
authors badly.  I have heard this from the authors themselves.  I would
recommend user groups rather than EDUCORP, because of this.
************************

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael - Summers)
Subject: Finder Window hack?
Date: 19 Mar 92 18:32:13 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I'd like to arrange for Finder windows in Outline View to automagically
resize themselves when I open/close directories.

This is a completely foreign area for me, but my thinking is to hack the
system WDEF to look for vertical scroll bar activity and then invoke the
resize code.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on how to approach this, snippets of code
would be great!

Thanks, Mike.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Tim Endres)
Date: 20 Mar 92 14:26:07 GMT
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.


In article <[e-mail]> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), [e-mail] (Michael - Summers) writes:
> I'd like to arrange for Finder windows in Outline View to automagically
> resize themselves when I open/close directories.
>
> This is a completely foreign area for me, but my thinking is to hack the
> system WDEF to look for vertical scroll bar activity and then invoke the
> resize code.

First, the Control handles the scrolling, not the Window. Second,
you would probably want to resize when the window opens *not* when
the user clicks on a scroller! You would probably want to hook the
Initialize routine.

tim.


tim endres - [e-mail]  -or-  uupsi!tbomb!time
ICE Engineering, Inc. - Phone [phone] - FAX [phone]
8840 Main Street, Whitmore Lake, MI  48189
USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Michael - Summers)
Date: 20 Mar 92 20:22:23 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Hmmm, the effect I am looking for is to either have the Finder window
just large enough to show the Outline View, or, if the View is larger
than the screen, as large as the screen.

The only way I could think of to know whether the view had grown larger
than the window was to see what the state of vertical scroll bar was--
if the scroll box appeared then I would invoke the code for the zoom
box.

Basically I'm lazy and don't want to have to click the zoom box
when the window contents expand/shrink.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Keith Rollin)
Date: 23 Mar 92 02:54:25 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael - Summers) writes:
>I'd like to arrange for Finder windows in Outline View to automagically
>resize themselves when I open/close directories.
>
>This is a completely foreign area for me, but my thinking is to hack the
>system WDEF to look for vertical scroll bar activity and then invoke the
>resize code.
>
>I'd appreciate any thoughts on how to approach this, snippets of code
>would be great!

Your approach, or something akin to it, might work. However, I have a
hack of my own that you might be interested in. I programmed Cmd-Space
to simulate a click on the zoom box of the frontmost window. When this
happens in the Finder, it has the same effect as you are looking for.

Programming the hack is pretty simple. I put a patch on MenuSelect. The
first thing it does is call the original MenuSelect so that it can
process the Cmd-key sequence. If MenuSelect returns zero (i.e., there
is no menu item corresponding to the pressed Cmd-key), and the key
pressed was a space, I post a mousedown and mouse up event in the zoom
box of the front window.

Yeah, it's a tail-patch. Big deal. The INIT is included in Macintosh
Programming Secrets, 2nd Edition, where I explain why this shouldn't be
a problem in this case.


- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Rollin           ---            <Taligent .signature under construction>
Disclaimer: Pretty soon, I really _won't_ be speaking for Apple...

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Daryl Spitzer)
Subject: AppleLink charges
Date: 20 Mar 92 05:35:20 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Lloyd Lim writes:
>
> Now that it looks like I'll have to maintain an AppleLink account, I've
> noticed the outrageous charges.  Since you're already paying a stiff
> $12 per hour, why is there an additional charge per K sent or received?

Be glad you're not in Canada, where we're charged $30/hour!  (Plus the kilochar
charges.)  I certainly wouldn't have the account if it wasn't required to be an
Apple Associate.
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
 [e-mail]     "Life isn't just, life just is."
         [e-mail]              -- Me  (I think.)
       [e-mail]
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (JohnC)
Date: 20 Mar 92 17:11:13 GMT
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daryl Spitzer) writes:
>> Lloyd Lim writes:
>>
>> Now that it looks like I'll have to maintain an AppleLink account, I've
>> noticed the outrageous charges.  Since you're already paying a stiff
>> $12 per hour, why is there an additional charge per K sent or received?
>
>Be glad you're not in Canada, where we're charged $30/hour!  (Plus the kilochar
>charges.)  I certainly wouldn't have the account if it wasn't required to be an
>Apple Associate.

One thing to keep in mind is that the AppleLink system iteself is run by
General Electric Information Services, the same people that run GEnie.  I'm
pretty sure that they are the ones determining the rates, not Apple.

- --
John Cavallino                  |  EMail: [e-mail]
University of Chicago Hospitals |         [e-mail]
Office of Facilities Management | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, MC 0953
B0 f++ c+ g+ k s++ e+ h- pv     |         Chicago, IL  60637

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Cory Kempf)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 92 19:40:59 EST
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH


In article <[e-mail]> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), [e-mail] (Daryl Spitzer) writes:
>> Lloyd Lim writes:
>>
>> Now that it looks like I'll have to maintain an AppleLink account, I've
>> noticed the outrageous charges.

I agree, which is why I am trying to eliminate the need to use Applelink
in the two companies that I work for.  I mean if AOL can run a similar
on line service for $5/hour, NO KC charge, why does Apple have to
rape its developers?

+C

PS: did you catch the new $0.50 / e-mail SENT or RECEIVED on Applelink
to/from the Internet?



- -------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
[e-mail]           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Never play Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Cory Kempf)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 92 19:43:42 EST
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH


In article <[e-mail]> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), [e-mail] (JohnC) writes:
>One thing to keep in mind is that the AppleLink system iteself is run by
>General Electric Information Services, the same people that run GEnie.  I'm
>pretty sure that they are the ones determining the rates, not Apple.

Actually, from what I heard, that is not the case.  When Apple announced
this latest developer gouge, someone from GE on Applelink said that
it was *NOT* in response to a rate hike from GE -- they hadn't raised
their rates.

+C


- -------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
[e-mail]           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Never play Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic.

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Bertrand Limoges)
Subject: THINK C and HOpenResFile
Date: 21 Mar 92 01:14:19 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young Inc.

Well here I am coding an INIT and decide to use HOpenResFile with info that I
got at startup time with CurResFile and PBGetFCBInfo, to access my resources
of course. So I copy the prototype out of THINK Reference, paste it into some
testing code, check link and boom! I get the HOpenResFile undefined error.
Well, I look at Mac #includes.c and Resources.h is included so I check out
Resources.h to see what gives, and I find the following:

pascal short HOpenResFile(short vRefNum,long dirID,ConstStr255Param fileName,
    char permission);

That's all, no '= { ... }'! Tech note #214 mentions that glue for
this call is available with MPW 3.0. Am I to assume I can't use it with
THINK C 5.0?

I would like to use it, otherwise I assume I'll have to use SetVol before
calling OpenResFile.

Any help appreciated, reply via email preferably, Bertrand Limoges

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jon W{tte)
Date: 21 Mar 92 08:33:10 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

.com> [e-mail] (Bertrand Limoges) writes:

   Well here I am coding an INIT and decide to use HOpenResFile with info that I
   got at startup time with CurResFile and PBGetFCBInfo, to access my resources
   of course. So I copy the prototype out of THINK Reference, paste it into some

Why would you do that ? Your INIT file should already be the
current resource file at startup time... (But you might want
to open a preferences file...)

   testing code, check link and boom! I get the HOpenResFile undefined error.

Nah, a link error is not "boom." ... but read on !

   That's all, no '= { ... }'! Tech note #214 mentions that glue for
   this call is available with MPW 3.0. Am I to assume I can't use it with
   THINK C 5.0?

The glue is in MacTraps; I believe MacTraps2. That's all documented
in the manual. It's been since Think C 4.0...

- --
[e-mail]; Jon W{tte, the Diplomat - NOT!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Bernie Bernstein)
Organization: Universtiy of Coloardo, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1992 21:54:17 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bertrand Limoges) writes:
>Well here I am coding an INIT and decide to use HOpenResFile with info that I
>got at startup time with CurResFile and PBGetFCBInfo, to access my resources
>of course. So I copy the prototype out of THINK Reference, paste it into some
>testing code, check link and boom! I get the HOpenResFile undefined error.
>Well, I look at Mac #includes.c and Resources.h is included so I check out
>Resources.h to see what gives, and I find the following:
>
>pascal short HOpenResFile(short vRefNum,long dirID,ConstStr255Param fileName,
>    char permission);
>
>That's all, no '= { ... }'! Tech note #214 mentions that glue for
>this call is available with MPW 3.0. Am I to assume I can't use it with
>THINK C 5.0?
>
>I would like to use it, otherwise I assume I'll have to use SetVol before
>calling OpenResFile.
>

You got the error when you tried to link. That means you didn't have
the object code in the project. I had this problem with the high level
HFS calls from the Tech Note. I think the glue for those calls are in
MacTraps2, not MacTraps. In the Think C Users Guide, P.205, it says
MacTraps is for InsideMac 1-V and MacTraps2 is for VI, but I guess
since the high level HFS calls appeared outside of I-V, they put it in
the second set.

So, you can fix your problem by adding MacTraps2 to your project.

- --
      o,  ,,   ,      | Bernie Bernstein                      | ,    ,,
      L>O/  \,/ \    ,| University of Colorado at boulder     |/ \,,/  \
     O./  '  / . `, / | office: [phone]                |     / ` \  ,.
    ,/   /  ,      '  | email: [e-mail]        | /        ''  \

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ray Arachelian)
Subject: Opening Documents While T
Date: 18 Mar 92 03:43:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/204 - Not Even Odd, Forest Hills NY

On 03-09-92, [e-mail] wrote to ALL:

 K> When you double click on a document file while it's owner is running,
 K> multifinder generates a mousedown event in the appropriate menu item.
 K> It also sets up a patch of some sort so that the next call to
 K> SFGetFile does not bring up the normal dialog, but returns the
 K> information from the document file that got the double click.  The
 K> point is that all this is done outside your program, and there is no
 K> provision made by multifinder to allow your program to distinguish
 K> this from a real mousedown event in the menu.  This is true in system
 K> 7 as well as in the older systems when multifinder is used.

Here's a (theoretical) way of finding out.  It's ugly, but may do the
trick.  Check the timing between your application coming out of the
background to the foreground, right before the file open menu click.  I'm
not sure about the earlier systems, but in 7.0, you can set and check
where your application is.

An uglier way is to constanly monitor the position of the most and the
keyboard keypress status.  If the mouse goes near the file menu, and
doesn't jump from one position to it, then back to its original position,
and you get a file menu open event, or the command key is being held and
released and you get the open event, you've got a user entered file
request.

 * Freddie 1.1 * You have been found guilty of commerce with the devil.

- --
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
 Ray Arachelian - Internet: [e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Keith Rollin)
Date: 23 Mar 92 03:03:12 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ray Arachelian) writes:
>On 03-09-92, [e-mail] wrote to ALL:
>
> K> When you double click on a document file while it's owner is running,
> K> multifinder generates a mousedown event in the appropriate menu item.
> K> It also sets up a patch of some sort so that the next call to
> K> SFGetFile does not bring up the normal dialog, but returns the
> K> information from the document file that got the double click.  The
> K> point is that all this is done outside your program, and there is no
> K> provision made by multifinder to allow your program to distinguish
> K> this from a real mousedown event in the menu.  This is true in system
> K> 7 as well as in the older systems when multifinder is used.
>
>Here's a (theoretical) way of finding out.  It's ugly, but may do the
>trick.  Check the timing between your application coming out of the
>background to the foreground, right before the file open menu click.  I'm
>not sure about the earlier systems, but in 7.0, you can set and check
>where your application is.
>
>An uglier way is to constanly monitor the position of the most and the
>keyboard keypress status.  If the mouse goes near the file menu, and
>doesn't jump from one position to it, then back to its original position,
>and you get a file menu open event, or the command key is being held and
>released and you get the open event, you've got a user entered file
>request.

Why _anyone_ would want to distinguish between a document opened from
the File menu and one opened from the Finder is totally beyond me.
However, I guess there is some reason, because I think that THINK C
checks (THINK C does something really goofy in its dialog hook where
it replaces the first character of the returned file name with $7F.
Don't ask me why they do this, and don't ask me why I know this).

Ray's got his mind in the gutter. I think that there is a much better
and cleaner way to see if MultiFinder/Process Manager is
puppet-stringing your application into opening a file. Before calling
SFPGetFile, set a Boolean variable to FALSE. Provide a dlgHook for
SFPGetFile that sets this Boolean to TRUE. When StdFile returns, check
the Boolean. If it's still FALSE, then you never made it to the dialog,
and might want to assume that your application was puppet-stringed.

- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Rollin           ---            <Taligent .signature under construction>
Disclaimer: Pretty soon, I really _won't_ be speaking for Apple...

---------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: A beep when I compile?
Date: 20 Mar 92 09:35:56 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Lately I've been getting a SysBeep() sound when compiling an app with THINK C
5.02.  I did a full sweep of my code and didn't find a SysBeep() call anywhere.
I did a virus sweep and came out clean (whew!).  Is it just late or am I
insane?  Maybe if someone could tell me how to patch a trap with MacsBug I
could run this thing down and retain my sanity.

john calhoun
"...chained to the pillars / a 3-day party / i break the walls
and kill us all / with holy fingers..."  The Pixies

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Phil Shapiro)
Date: 21 Mar 92 13:59:50 GMT
Organization: Symantec Corp.

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:

   Lately I've been getting a SysBeep() sound when compiling an app
   with THINK C 5.02.  I did a full sweep of my code and didn't find a
   SysBeep() call anywhere.  I did a virus sweep and came out clean
   (whew!).  Is it just late or am I insane?  Maybe if someone could
   tell me how to patch a trap with MacsBug I could run this thing
   down and retain my sanity.

THINK C 5.0 generates a SysBeep to let you know it's done with a
"long" compile. In the current version, it considers a compile
consisting of 15 or more files to be long.

If you want to try to track this down with MacsBug, hit the
programmer's key while you're in THINK C, and then type:

    atba sysbeep

Make sure that the CurApName is THINK C when you do this. MacsBug will
come up when THINK C calls SysBeep. Use "atc" to clear the a-trap
breakpoint.

    -phil
- --
   Phil Shapiro                                   Software Engineer
   Language Products Group                     Symantec Corporation
           Internet: [e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Miika Asunta)
Date: 21 Mar 92 12:34:01 GMT
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Lately I've been getting a SysBeep() sound when compiling an app with THINK C
>5.02.  I did a full sweep of my code and didn't find a SysBeep() call anywhere.
>I did a virus sweep and came out clean (whew!).  Is it just late or am I
>insane?  Maybe if someone could tell me how to patch a trap with MacsBug I
>could run this thing down and retain my sanity.

I have noticed the same behaviour sometimes.
Maybe it comes after large compilations (over 10 files?).

I have also checked for viruses, and found the machine very ... clean.

Miika

- --
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&  Miika Asunta        &  [e-mail]  &  Double Bass Player   &
& tel. [phone]  &             &  Macintosh Programmer &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Q: Icons AND command keys in menus?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1992 19:31:26 GMT

 Forgive the undoubtedly elementary nature of this question...

 But the summary says it all. Is it possible to have both an icon
(a SICN or an ICON) associated with a menu item along with a command
key equivalent? I think I remember seeing something on menu data
structures that implied this wasn't possible.

 However I think I have seen applications with both. Did they have
to hack something that isn't supported normally by system software,
or what?

 Thanks in advance!

 - Neil K. ([e-mail])

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (JohnC)
Date: 22 Mar 92 00:12:51 GMT
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:
> But the summary says it all. Is it possible to have both an icon
>(a SICN or an ICON) associated with a menu item along with a command
>key equivalent? I think I remember seeing something on menu data
>structures that implied this wasn't possible.
>
> However I think I have seen applications with both. Did they have
>to hack something that isn't supported normally by system software,
>or what?

You are mistaken.  It is items with sub-menus that cannot also have icons,
since the icon field is re-used to specify the ID of the sub-menu.  Command
key equivalents and item icons can coexist just fine.

    JohnC

- --
John Cavallino                  |  EMail: [e-mail]
University of Chicago Hospitals |         [e-mail]
Office of Facilities Management | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, MC 0953
B0 f++ c+ g+ k s++ e+ h- pv     |         Chicago, IL  60637

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1992 02:56:43 GMT

[e-mail] (JohnC) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:
>> But the summary says it all. Is it possible to have both an icon
>>(a SICN or an ICON) associated with a menu item along with a command
>>key equivalent? I think I remember seeing something on menu data
>>structures that implied this wasn't possible.

>You are mistaken.  It is items with sub-menus that cannot also have icons,
>since the icon field is re-used to specify the ID of the sub-menu.  Command
>key equivalents and item icons can coexist just fine.

 Well I'm glad I'm mistaken. The only problem is, how can I get both
a SICN and a command key equivalent appearing in a menu item using
ResEdit? It seems to disable the command key when I add an icon, using
2.11 at any rate.

 Thanks for any advice!

 - Neil K. ([e-mail])

---------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Updated Inside Mac?
Date: 22 Mar 92 03:59:23 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology


        Does anybody know if there is any project underway at Apple or
elsewhere to update and consolidate the host of Inside Macintosh manuals
and Technical Notes and various other $30 tomes of wisdom that have an average
of about half the pages out of date? I'd really like to know before I
shell out any more dollars for these books, especially since I typically
need only one or two chapters from each.

Elliotte Rusty Harold                 Department of Applied Mathematics
[e-mail]                    New Jersey Institute of Technology
[e-mail]                Newark, NJ 07103

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Keith Rollin)
Date: 23 Mar 92 02:45:59 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>        Does anybody know if there is any project underway at Apple or
>elsewhere to update and consolidate the host of Inside Macintosh manuals
>and Technical Notes and various other $30 tomes of wisdom that have an average
>of about half the pages out of date? I'd really like to know before I
>shell out any more dollars for these books, especially since I typically
>need only one or two chapters from each.

Yes, there is a project underway at Apple (it's been announeced here
before) and I believe that developers are now getting preliminary
versions of some of the chapters. IM 2nd edition incorporates all the
old IM's, all the relevant technotes, and includes additional lore and
sample code. However, it is organized in several volumes around
wide-ranging subjects, so you will probably still be buying chapters
you aren't interested in. I have no idea when the new suite will be
rolled out, so I can't help you make your decision as to whether
to "shell out any more dollars."

In the meantime, most people are pretty happy using Symantec's THINK
reference, which incorporates IM 1-5, many of the technotes, and lore
that they've collected in the development of their own products.


- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Rollin           ---            <Taligent .signature under construction>
Disclaimer: Pretty soon, I really _won't_ be speaking for Apple...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Cory Kempf)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 92 19:37:36 EST
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH


In article <[e-mail]> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), [e-mail] writes:
>
>        Does anybody know if there is any project underway at Apple or
>elsewhere to update and consolidate the host of Inside Macintosh manuals
[etc.]

Yes.  On the recent developer CD (20,000 leagues under the CD), there
is a preview of several chapters of the new inside Mac.  About 21
MB worth, as well as a reader for it.  It looks like they are just
beginning, as there is not enough info there to be really useful yet.

Just for comparison, the soft copies of IM I-VI are also on the CD:
about 47MB.  They have a ways to go.

+C


- -------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
[e-mail]           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Never play Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic.

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Cory Kempf)
Subject: AppleLink flames
Date: 22 Mar 92 00:47:37 GMT
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH


In article <[e-mail]> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), [e-mail] (Matt Mora) writes:
>[...]                                    Apple is just as upset as you
>are about the Applelink charges. (or so I hear). You need to complain to the
>company running applelink not Apple.

If Apple were as upset as you claim, then why haven't they moved to
a more reasonable vendor?  Say, AOL for example?  It has been several
months since the first rate hike, and a couple since the internet
hit.

+C


- -------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
[e-mail]           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Never play Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (James L. Paul)
Date: 22 Mar 92 18:54:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I was told that AOL originally started out as Applelink Personal Edition,
and that somebody (presumably Apple) soured the deal at the last moment,
resulting in AOL going online on their own. Anyone know more about this?

I pay $4/hour to AOL, since I signed up back during their orignal promotion.
I stopped using AppleLink for serious use altogether because of a bill over
$800 for downloading 7 disk images after their rate hike.

A company I used to work for used AppleLink for customer support. We sent
files to customers who needed them FAST of to provide fixes, help, etc.
Before the rate hike this worked fine and everyone was happy. After the
rate hike we got charged over $100 for each copy of software we sent, and
had to pass the cost on to the customer. This resulted in both us and the
customers finding alternative online services FAST. AOL became the service
of choice, since we could FedEx AOL software to customers for the first
time, then continue to use it. AOL even paid us in connect time for these
new users!

AppleLink couldn't make themselves more unnatractive if they tried, and
is another example of alienating their most valuable customers. And now
AppleLink is slower than ever! While AOL response time continues to improve!

And AOL is available to the DOS platform, too! In a time when Mac developers
are slowly migrating to Windows for obvious marketing opportunities, and
with AppleLink providing less and less help and software on AppleLink (by
failing to post many updates and going through APDA instead) I'm finding
it difficult to feel the loyalty that Apple used to easily inspire.

In short... Apple, you are screwing up in this area. Please wake up.

- --
James L. Paul

Internet:    netcom![e-mail] | AppleLink: D1231 | CompuServe: 72767,3436
UUCP:   {apple,amdahl}!netcom!james | GEnie:    J.PAUL | Voice:    607 776-3070
Packet: N6SIW@WB2PSI.#WNY.NY.USA.NA | Delphi:   JLPaul | Home Fax: [phone]
America Online:   JLPaul or Memorex | BIX:      JLPaul | Prodigy:       PWTB41A

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jon W{tte)
Date: 22 Mar 92 21:14:15 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

.com> [e-mail] (James L. Paul) writes:

   A company I used to work for used AppleLink for customer support. We sent
   files to customers who needed them FAST of to provide fixes, help, etc.
   Before the rate hike this worked fine and everyone was happy. After the
   rate hike we got charged over $100 for each copy of software we sent, and

You could connect to the internet instead, and mail the software to
the users on AppleLink...

   And AOL is available to the DOS platform, too! In a time when Mac developers
   are slowly migrating to Windows for obvious marketing opportunities, and

Marketing isn't all. I'd rather stay with a platform that actually has
some thought into modular OS design (more and more the newer the parts
get...) than a standard graphics driver for DOS - that's what Windows is.
Imagine, you don't even get your documents as icons unless you WORK for
it in Windows...

   with AppleLink providing less and less help and software on AppleLink (by
   failing to post many updates and going through APDA instead) I'm finding
   it difficult to feel the loyalty that Apple used to easily inspire.

Well; _develop_ and the developer CDs and mailings are getting to be a
very good channel. And ETO is now the only reasonable way to buy your
development tools.

However, we're going to switch from Apple to Taligent in a year or two
anyway, so why worry ? :-)

- --
[e-mail]; Jon W{tte, the Diplomat - NOT!

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Roby Sherman)
Subject: Yet *ANOTHER* resource question...
Date: 22 Mar 92 13:23:53 GMT
Organization: The Tao of Programming

Is there a Resource Manager call similar to UseResFile that will accept an
index value, as opposed to passing it a File Reference Number?

In other words, what I would like to be able to do is tell the resource
manager to use the 3rd open resource file, which may or may not be known to
my program, but should be known to the resource manager.

Some sample code would be GREATLY appreciated...


              thanks,

                Roby

- --
[e-mail]                    Roby Sherman

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Keith Rollin)
Date: 23 Mar 92 03:19:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roby Sherman) writes:
>Is there a Resource Manager call similar to UseResFile that will accept an
>index value, as opposed to passing it a File Reference Number?
>
>In other words, what I would like to be able to do is tell the resource
>manager to use the 3rd open resource file, which may or may not be known to
>my program, but should be known to the resource manager.
>
>Some sample code would be GREATLY appreciated...

I'll answer your question blind, but I want to warn you up front that
what you are trying to do is HIGHLY unusual and has no supported
solution. You should probably rethink what you are trying to do and see
if there is a cleaner way of doing it. You might want to post what you
_really_ want to do and see if anyone can come up with a better
solution.

There are possibly two way of doing what you want to do. If you want to
find all of the open resource files, then indexed PBGetFCBInfo calls
should do this for you. That will return to you a list of all open
files, along with their file refnums and a bit indicating if the open
fork is the data or resource fork. However, you won't be able to use
all of the returned refnums, since the Resource Manager will only be
able to access the ones that were opened by your application. Call
UseResFile with each returned refnum, and check ResError() to see which
ones work.

Another method would be to walk the resource chain in your application
heap. Start with the handle in TopMapHndl, and walk the chain. Each
block in the chain is a resource map that contains the refnum of the
open resource fork. You can use this refnum in calls to UseResFile().

typedef struct ResourceMap{
    long        dataOffset;
    long        mapOffset;
    long        dataLength;
    long        mapLength;
    struct ResourceMap    **nextMap;
    short        refNum;
    short        attributes;
    short        typesOffset;
    short        namesOffset;
} ResourceMap, *ResMapPtr, **ResMapHandle;

{
    ResMapHandle    current = NIL;
    short        thisRefNum;

    current = (ResMapHandle) TopMapHndl;
    while (current != NIL) {
        thisRefNum = (**current).refNum;
        /* do something with it. */
        current = (**current).nextMap;
    }
}


Again, I think there is probably another way of doing what you want to
do. My feeling is that only a Mac-wiz would want to walk through
resource maps like this, but a Maz-wiz wouldn't have to ask how to do
it.

- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Rollin           ---            <Taligent .signature under construction>
Disclaimer: Pretty soon, I really _won't_ be speaking for Apple...

---------------------------

End of C.S.M.P. Digest
**********************